When is the Right Time to Discuss Prognosis, Hospice, and other End of Life Issues


An article by Dr. Nancy Keating, from Harvard School of Public Health, in the journal Cancer discusses the issue of when physicians who treat patients with a terminal diagnosis discuss prognosis, preferences for extraordinary measures or a “do not resuscitate” (DNR) order, ideas about hospice, and where patients would prefer to have their death. Guidelines developed by the National Comprehensive Cancer Network recommend that physicians discuss these issues for patients who have a prognosis of less than a year, but what do physicians actually do?  The relatively scant information on the subject suggests that physicians vary greatly in their styles.

To answer this question themselves, the investigators send out questionnaires that they received back from over 4,000 physicians, non-cancer physicians, medical oncologists,  surgeons, and  radiation oncologists.  Specifically, they asked physicians when they would bring up the issues of prognosis, DNR preferences, hospice, and preferred location of death for a hypothetical patient with an estimated survival of 4-6 months but who felt well now.  Options ranged from the time of the initial visit (”now”) to a point in the future when the patient was symptomatic, or there were no further feasible treatments, or when a patient was hospitalized, or not until the patient and/or family brought up these issues.  The investigators also asked about physicians’ experience with managing terminally ill patients and how confident they were in their knowledge about managing terminal care issues for patients.

Overall, 65% of physicians reported that they would discuss prognosis from the beginning, with 15% on the other extreme of not discussing prognosis until or unless the patient brings it up.   For discussion of DNR status,  44% favored discussing DNR preferences at the initial visit, with the remainder scattered across the milestones.  Discussion of hospice was most commonly reported as something to defer until there were no further potentially effective palliative treatments available.  Least likely to be discussed “now” was preferred location of death, which 21% of physicians saying they’d bring up from the initial visit, and 24% not discussing this until the patient brings up the topic.

There were also some differences among the physicians surveyed.  Younger physicians were more likely to be proactive about initiating these discussions earlier.  Medical oncologists and surgeons were significantly more likely to bring up prognosis than other physicians.   Not surprisingly, the physicians who reported more experience and greater confidence about end-of-life care brought the issues up earlier than others.

The results are interesting and overall show a lot of personal differences, in keeping with the evidence as well as what I think most of us see in the real world.  Some physicians feel that this is part of appropriate care for terminally ill patients, since studies show that physicians are not especially good at assuming correctly the preferences of a patient for issues like DNR status.  Other physicians are concerned that discussing end-of-life care dispels hope and sets a negative tone and evade these issues as long as possible.

I personally feel that it’s important for patients to have some real understanding of their prognosis if they are really going to be equipped to make an informed decision about treatment.  Someone who is agreeing to start a potentially challenging regimen of two or three agents for advanced lung cancer should know the limitations of what treatment can offer, and specifically that we aren’t giving it with an intent or realistic expectation that it will be curative treatment.  On the other hand, I’ve also become more nuanced and try to read my patients in terms of what they’re receptive to discussing, compared with being more universally proactive in my earlier years in practice.  And even though I’m definitely among the oncologists at my institution least likely to avoid these discussions by the time they become pressing issues, I’m certainly not someone who routinely discusses hospice and a patient’s preference for where they would prefer to have their death occur on an initial visit.

But is that wrong?  My hospital now requires that we specify a preference for “Full code” or DNR for every patient admission, but I know that we physicians don’t always have these discussions with patients in whom they don’t envision this to be an urgent issue (and they often still don’t when it really will be an immediate issue).  The guidelines suggest that doctors initiate these discussions from the very beginning if a patient has a prognosis of less than a year, even if they feel well.  I personally don’t feel that I should, based merely on guidelines from an expert panel that are based on no particularly strong evidence that this is more helpful than waiting until you’ve established a relationship with a patient and end-of-life issues may be relevant in the near future.  Some of the physicians who responded that they don’t pursue these discussions in an early visit probably feel the same way, though I’m sure other physicians just don’t want to have a discussion that can be awkward and, in some patients, may alienate or offend them.

Over time, I’m coming to feel that our approach to these issues should be individualized, just like we individualize our medical approach based on patient health, performance status, molecular markers, preferences about aggressiveness, and many other factors.  Some patients may take longer than others to reach a point when they can discuss these issues, and I think that’s OK and even quite appropriate. To me, using guidelines to direct the timeline for having these discussions is too “color-by-numbers” in a time when people need individualized management.

I think it’s very important to hear from people on the other side about what patients and caregivers would be receptive to, or whether they’d prefer to bring these issues up and not have these topics initiated by their physicians.

Related Posts

Posted in: General

8 Comments  

Ming
Posted on January 17, 2010 at 11:44 am

As a care giver, I don’t mind doctors bring up this issue at the very beginning, even the odds are pretty bad and brutally against my loved one. I remember the first time our doctor telling me that my Mom will likely not survive longer than a year, I can still maintain my upbeats and feel full of hope. Now looking back, I think my confidence comes from my newly learned knowledge of the disease, and the way the doctor deliver the information.

I’d say that timing of this kind of discussion is not that critical for a care giver. It is an ongoing issue. With ups and downs down the road of treatments, there are many times when we have to face it. What matters most is the way we approach this issue. I would appreciate more articles on the arts of discussing prognosis and death with a cancer patient.


cards7up
Posted on January 17, 2010 at 1:15 pm

I can only go on personal experience and also having worked in a case management and social work department at a hospital. So I had some info already being the person to send out a social worker to do an Advanced Directive with the patient and family. It’s a hard place to be, but sometimes we need to do it while we can. I believe the patient and the family should receive an Advanced Directive and make it part of the record. This way the patient gets exactly what they want and the family knows what that is. Someone has to be the health agent (or more). My older sister and myself were my Mom’s agents. We did exactly what she wanted when the time came. I’m not saying it was easy, but knowing it was what she wanted did in fact make it easier. Sometimes we can’t give them the place they’d like to be when they pass, but for the most part, we can give them what they want. Take care, JC


cards7up
Posted on January 17, 2010 at 1:23 pm

Sorry left out the comment about prognosis, end of life and hospice. I think each case is individualized. If a patient is too far progressed, why offer treatment that can most likely take their life before the cancer. However, if a patient is treated and continues to progress, there has to be a point when the doctor, patient and family decide when enough is enough. and hospice should be discussed at this time. If you’re fighting a losing battle, go for quality of life. I don’t ever think a prognosis should be given at a first meeting, especially if a patient will receive treatment. Wait until you find out how the first treatment goes. I think doctors need to be honest but compassionate. We were not told how toxic my mother’s treatment was and it was only one time that did her in. She was too weak and too far advanced. These are situations I would like to see avoided. Thanks for letting us respond to a very touchy subject. Take care, JC


recce101
Posted on January 17, 2010 at 2:12 pm

Unless the patient is already in poor condition as a result of the cancer, I believe the first oncology appointment is too early for a discussion of DNR orders, hospice, or preferred place of death. Even prognosis is a tricky area, since it’s not yet known how well the patient’s cancer may respond to treatment. For the typical stage IV or wet IIIb patient, I think the oncologist’s initial discussion should include these points:

1. “Your cancer is not curable, but it is treatable.” Explain the difference between curable and treatable. Mention micrometastases, why we believe/know they’ve spread thru the bloodstream, why chemo is the only way to get at them, why we can’t know if we’ve eliminated them all, and how this adds up to “not curable.”

2. “It’s too early to give you a prognosis. We’ll have a better idea when we see how you respond to treatment.” If the patient presses the matter, give the latest numbers for that stage, but emphasize it’s just an average/mean for a very large group with a lot of variation from one end to another. Include something like “I have patients who received your same diagnosis ____ ago and are still doing well.” It’s probably not necessary to mention the other extreme.

3. Present the treatment options. If these do not include surgery and/or radiation, explain why.

Discussion of hospice, DNR, and the like can probably wait until symptoms from the cancer (as distinguished from treatment side-effects) are becoming significant, or no reasonable treatment options remain, or treatment is causing more harm than benefit.

Ned


Terryl
Posted on January 17, 2010 at 6:00 pm

I agree whole heartedly with Ned. I am hopeful that the need for Hospice and or DNR will be discussed when my Doctor feels the need is imminent. I do think that when one has a terminal illness, regardless of prognosis, that Durable power or attorney for Health care should be discussed early on. One never knows when things will change suddenly. Of course everyone should have this document on file with their doctor. Knowing this, I still neglected it until I was diagnosed stage IV. I think that waiting until I was feeling ill from the cancer, or until my prognosis had worsened, would have made the discussion of my wishes, even more difficult for my family. It is a comfort having this on file with my Physicians. I have to say, NONE of my doctors has ever suggested that I do this. Perhaps, as mentioned earlier there are patients who would think that suggesting this is tantamount to saying “get your affairs in order”. As a nurse I would like to see more physicians make it a standard practice, whenever they accept a new patient, to encourage DPOA to be on file. Just my 2 cents worth.


fillise
Posted on January 18, 2010 at 2:53 pm

I agree with Ned. When my mom got the news that she had lung cancer, the forst words out of her mouth were “I guess I’m a goner.” when she was diagnosed her only symptom was back pain. She had no symptoms from her lung and didn’t until a couple of months ago. In other words she was perfectly healthy except for the lung cancer and even though the stats said maybe 8 - 12 month, her oncologist strongly suspected that she might respond to treatment.

Her oncologist was very careful to tell her that he probably couldn’t cure her, but he thought he could control the cancer. She told me that was the first hope she had since receiving the news. I don’t think she would have had any hope if he had talked about hospice and DNRs at that point.

For three years he has done a good job of controlling the cancer. Last summer scans showed that the cancer had spread to her other lung and to her liver he talked about options. Some people he said wanted to keep going at that point and some decided not to continue treatment. Mom’s response was that she wanted to see her grand daughters graduate from high school and college and he has worked to find other treatments. The late summer and fall was rocky, but she seems to be responding well to Tarceva and is feeling better than she has since last summer.

Mom knows perfectly well that hospice and DNRs are going to be important at some point. She has already signed her healthcare power for attorney and discussed her preferences with us. I trust her and,importantly, her oncologist trusts her to make the decision about when she will end treatment.

Had she presented in failing health three years ago with SOB and weight loss and weakness he might have made some different decisions about treatment and would probably have counseled her and us differently. Like Dr. West, I’d much rather the oncologist use his/her experience to make an individual evaluation about when those discussions should take place.


Dr Harman
Posted on January 19, 2010 at 3:41 pm

Thank you, Dr. West, for posting on this recent study, and thank you, GRACE members, for your perspectives. As a palliative care physician on an inpatient consult team, I see cancer patients when it is far too late to be having discussions of patients’ preferences, and everyone is operating under the added stress of hospitalization and crisis. As much as possible, discussions under those circumstances should be prevented by earlier conversations. However, I can appreciate that discussing treatment options, prognosis, goals of care, and end-of-life care options all during an initial visit seems unrealistic, let alone challenging just from the time perspective. While these guidelines have their limitations on an individual basis, I think the existence of a guideline can serve as a prompt for clinicians and also as a way to normalize (as much as possible) the occurrence of these discussions, so that it is not the exception but the expectation that these discussions happen before it’s too late.

-Dr. Harman


Incurable optimist
Posted on January 20, 2010 at 10:13 am

As a single person, it seems there can be quite a difference in approach to these issues between patients like me, and those with family or caregivers involved in treatment decisions.In my case, my doctors leave timing on this kind of thing to me and tend to respond in the direction I decide to go where possible. (They are also encouraged to set me straight if my judgments start to look awry!)

I wonder how often there is a (possibly unexpresssed) difference of view on this kind of issue between the patient and the family or caregiver and whether this concerns the medical professionals.