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We’ve discussed various ways of predicting outcomes with EGFR inhibitors like Tarceva or Iressa using clinical variables like smoking status or BAC subtype, as well as molecular markers like EGFR mutations, or EGFR gene amplification or protein expression. These can all be of value, but we know that the clinical markers are quite inexact, while the molecular markers are still a work in progress. Moreover, the molecular testing that has been the subject of most of the work thus far has come from tumor tissue material, which is often hard to come by and usually requires a biopsy or resection to obtain. But a recent article in the Journal of the National Cancer Institute, by a international collaborative group led by Dr. David Carbone from Vanderbilt University, describes their recent success in predicting survival after administration of EGFR inhibitor therapy using serum samples from patients all around the world (abstract here — full article also available from that page).
Dr. Carbone and his team at Vanderbilt have been leaders in the field of serum proteomics, which is the study of the proteins in the serum, the straw-colored fluid that remains after blood has clotted, so the cells and clotting proteins are absent. Obviously, collecting blood, from which serum samples can be analyzed, is much easier than collecting extra cancer cells in a biopsy to send off for studies. The approach they used at Vanderbilt is called matrix-assisted laser desorption ionization (MALDI) mass spectroscopy (MS), or just “mass spec”, which is very complex (code, perhaps, for me saying I really don’t understand it well? we only had to do a year of college physics to get into medical school, you know), but basically it is a way of analyzing a serum sample to report a set of peaks that represent different proteins in the sample:
You can use computer software to analyze the peak patterns of a large collection of serum samples from cancer patients before treatment, tell the software how those patients did, and then have the complex software discern patterns that can discriminate the patients who do well from the ones who do poorly. We saw a similar approach to this, done with tumor tissue, from the lab of Dr. Nevins at Duke, described in a prior post. For the study of serum, Taguchi and colleagues (including Dr. Carbone and many other stars in lung cancer from other institutions) started with a training set of 139 samples from patients in Italy and Japan who received Iressa after the serum was collected. From there the software was able to discern a set of eight peaks that could separate the group destined to do well from those who subsequently did poorly. The invstigators then tested their model with patient samples that served as validation sets to see if their model developed from the training set held up. One group was 67 more patients from Italy who received Iressa, and a second group was 96 patients from the US-based Eastern Cooperative Oncology Group (ECOG), from a trial called ECOG 3503 that gave Tarceva as first-line therapy for patients with advanced NSCLC.
It worked. Looking at the Italian patient that received Iressa, the group that the analysis predicted as good outcome had a median progression free survival of 84 days vs. 61 days for the poor outcome group, and the median overall survival difference was 207 vs. 92 days. In the ECOG set, the survival difference was a striking 306 vs. 107 days for good and poor outcome groups, respectively:
These survival curves are flanked by hatched lines that are the “confidence intervals” that are wider if there’s a lot of variability in the data, and they’re tighter around the solid line when there’s less varibility in the results. I’d focus more on the differences in the solid lines.
Interestingly, the investigators also showed that their analysis could discriminate groups that would do better or worse even among populations that we generally don’t think of as doing as well with EGFR inhibitors. Here’s the convincing differences in the survival curves for the smokers in the Italian validation set:
Now, you may be thinking, “Big deal…you can predict who is going to live longer with this fancy mass spectroscopy stuff, but I can do that by seeing who’s active and who’s sleeping all day, or who’s lost 30 pounds before starting treatment.” OK, it’s true that there are many ways to estimate prognosis, which is to a good degree a function of the health of the patient. But the investigators checked their technique to see if it predicted outcomes in patients who received surgery for early stage disease, or chemo and not EGFR inhibitors for later stage disease. And the mass spec patterns didn’t predict outcome very well. Instead, this technique was predictive of how people would do with EGFR inhibitors like Iressa or Tarceva, but this was specific for these treatments, rather than just being another prognostic factor that indicates which patients will do better or worse than other patients no matter what therapy they receive.
This approach is still only tested in relatively small numbers of patients. However, the investigators did the analysis in two different labs, one at Vanderbilt and another at the University of Colorado, and they both produced very similar, reproducible results for what the peak signature would look like whether samples were run in Denver or Nashville. While caveats were raised that sometimes early proteomics work has not panned out after initial promise in single institutions, and that the surgery and chemo recipients in their “control population” were a different patient mix than were enrolled on the Iressa and Tarceva trials they focused on, an accompanying editorial by the people who ran the influential BR.21 trial (editorial here) noted that this work was very encouraging.
In fact, there is a company called Biodesix that is now marketing this technology. You can have your serum run at a local lab and have the data analyzed through there company, or have a small amount of your serum sent to their lab in Boulder, Colorado for them to run the analysis and interpretation. Sample report information is available here (it’s pretty dense and boring when all you want to know is “good” or “poor”). The pricing isn’t listed, and I haven’t called yet to find out pricing. The authors of the JNCI paper note that it’s a great advantage to have a reliable technique that can work on just a tiny amount of serum and “at low cost”, but we’ll have to see how low cost it really is as a commercial test.
This work hasn’t yet emerged as the definitive answer, and it’s certainly not a standard approach at this time. Nevertheless, this is predictive work based on well conducted research that has been published after careful review, as part of a worldwide collaboration of clinical and lab researchers. Several very prominent experts are part of the company’s advisory team, so this work is certainly poised to potentially break into mainstream, widespread use. But I’ll come back to the question of whether people would really want to know that a treatment will or won’t work. It’s great if you learn you’re likely to benefit, but would you rather learn that you are highly unlikely to benefit from a treatment, or would you rather have some unknowns out there and have more hope? What if insurers said that they’re only going to cover the subset who are in the good group, and the others need to pay for it themselves because it’s futile therapy? I think this is the future of oncology, and that it will represent a great advance when we can utilize the drugs we already have much more intelligently. But it should lead us to predict that some people are unlikely to benefit from any treatment, and they may prefer the hope that exists with the unknown over new information that suggests such hope is misguided.
I welcome your thoughts. I’m also going to re-open an older poll that covers some of the issues raised here.
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Thanks Dr. West for bringing this technology and science to our attention; great addition to my ammo arsenal.
If there were many treatment options I would definetely want to know which one would work the best and try them in that order. If there was only one treatment that was shown to be viable from a test like the mass spec test I wouldn’t want hope to be dashed from trying other treatments down the road until something better came along.
Couple of questions:
1. If a patient has a high level of EGFR expression, does that mean that they would respond poorly to traditional chemo therapy?
2. If a patient has a high level of EGFR expression and responded well (shrinkage and stable disease) with a targeted therapy like Tarceva, does the amount of EGFR expression decline when that targeted therapy begins to fail?
3. Is it possible that there can be EGFR expression in one tumor site and not (or lesser) in another resulting in diferrent responses in the same body?
4. Would a mass spec test like the one done by Biodesix show whether there is high, medium , or low levels of EGFR expression?
Super post, Dr. West you really ping’ed my brain cells today. – Chanwit
Chanwit,
There’s a little bit of evidence that suggests people with tumors that have a lot of EGFR expression are less responsive to chemo, but not a lot of info, to my knowledge. Personally, I would not use EGFR expression to shape my opinions about the utility of chemo at this point.
I don’t think we have any evidence about what changes in terms of EGFR expression when people have been treated for a long time and become resistant, other than seeing a resistance mutation in a minority of patients. Part of the issue is that we don’t often have the opportunity to do multiple biopsies on a person’s tumor over time. These are invasive tests, and even though a biopsy is not usually very dangerous, the risk isn’t zero, so institutional review boards don’t favor doctors doing multiple invasive tests on people if it won’t change management.
It is quite possible that there may be a resistance mutation or different expression of EGFR protein or other proteins in one tumor but not in a metastasis somewhere else in the body. Or there may even be significant variability in expression in different cells within the same tumor, so the biopsy may not represent the whole mass that was biopsied. We are very early in this line of study.
I don’t think we’ve seen any evidence that this mass spec work is correlated with EGFR expression. The research paper and Biodesix people haven’t disclosed what these key protein peaks are that are contributing to the “signature”.
-Dr. West
Dear Dr. West:
We read with interest your recent post on Biodesix. Most of our team has read it now and felt you did an excellent job communicating some complex issues clearly. Thank you for that.
A key element in our mission is to enable patient stratification across a range of targeted therapies in oncology so we suspect that the work we are doing may be of interest to you and your readers in the future. We also appreciate some of the questions you add near the end of your post which we think are important considerations in the of diagnostic tools and their relationship to the insurance companies, doctors, and their patients. Feel free to engage us at any time if you have questions or comments about the work we are doing.
A couple of points of clarification may be helpful. First, we are not yet offering the test to oncologists. We hope to have a CLIA approved facility (most likely through a partnership) in place before the end of the year where oncologists will be able to order our test (VeriStrat). Secondly, we won’t send complex reports back to an oncologist but most likely just a binary answer. While the answer will be a ‘yes/no’, there will be commentary on how to interpret it and we are still working on exactly what the language should be (as you might imagine). We will announce pricing at the time we offer the test.
I appreciate questioning the benefits of a test that gives a prognosis for the only treatment available. However, in this case we believe the question is more subtle. While EGFR-TKIs are an alternative to chemotherapy, there appears to be a large group of patients that performs worse under EGFR-TKIs than under CT or even palliative care. The group of patients with KRAS mutations is an example. In fact the patients that were assigned a poor prognosis (using VeriStrat) and for which we had patient data, the median survival was about half of a comparable group of patients who received chemotherapy. It seems it would be in the patients benefit to not be prescribed EGFR-TKIs if they can be identified predictively. We are currently in the process of obtaining more retrospective data to further validate this finding, as well as being in the planning stages for three prospective trials.
Looking at your website I found speculations about a relation of this test with the level of EGFR expression. We can see no correlation of our test results with EGFR expression levels. While we are diligently working to identify the set of proteins that constitute our classifier, we do not think that the absence of a mechanistic explanation of how the test works should preclude us from trying to make the test available to oncologists, as the clinical validation appears to be very solid.
Best,
David Brunel, Heinrich Roder
The comment above came as an e-mail from some senior people at Biodesix in an e-mail response to this post. They invited me to post it, and I think much of the content would be of interest to readers here, so I posted on their behalf (they get an OncTalk account as a bonus).
I agree that it is quite possible that there is a subset of patients for whom EGFR inhibitors may be detrimental, so it may be of value to predict benefit of EGFR inhibitors (or other treatments in the future). I also would agree that you really don’t need a detailed explanation of the mechanism of a test to consider it valuable. I personally think that some of our proposed “targeted” therapies may not, in fact, work by the mechanisms we describe, but if they work, they work.
-Dr. West
PS — You can contact the company through their website, or I can relay a comment to them. If they want to post an e-mail address or two for members here to contact them, I’ll leave that to their discretion.
Dr. West,
I didn’t get an email response from Biodesix but the email they sent you answered my questions exactly. Thanks for posting it.
My final (for now) question is:
If the VeriStrat test came back “Yes” for use of a particular targeted therapy, would follow up (down the road) VeriStrat tests show if that targeted therapy was about to quit working and then possibly show “Yes” again even furthur down the road after stopping the targeted therapy?
- Chanwit
Dr. West,
I find this post extremely interesting. We are in the process of trying to decide what to do as second line therapy for my father and are weighing the pros/cons of Alimta vs Tarceva. I have known many people who had terrible reactions with Tarceva to find that it did not work for them at all. I hate to put my father through this if I had some way of knowing that Alimta might be a better approach. I’ve emailed Biodesix to inquire more on time lines of making this available to oncologist but have not yet heard a response. If you recieve more information on this, I’d love if you would post and let us know. You might have better luck at getting response.
Thanks again for all of your wonderful information…
Susan
I’ll try to keep in communication with the company and let people know as I learn more. Chanwit, I don’t think there’s any info on changing mass spectoscopy results from serum over time, as sensitivity gives way to resistance. That would certainly be a “next generation” question for them to ask, to see whether sending multiple samples over time could help us predict whether a given treatment was going to remain beneficial, or whether sensitivity could be restored later.
Some of the work being done trying to measure levels of micrometastases in blood are also hoping to use changes over time, with cell numbers moving up or down, as an important early indicator of whether a given treatment is working. But not quite yet…
-Dr. West