Bronchioloalveolar carcinoma, or BAC, is a unique subtype of non-small cell lung cancer (NSCLC) that has unique features in terms of the demographics of who gets it, how it appears on scans, how it often behaves, and potentially in how it responds to treatment. It is a subset of lung cancer for which most of what we know emerged in the last 10 years, with our understanding of this entity, and even the definition of BAC, still evolving.
What is BAC?
BAC was first identified and defined as a separate subtype of lung cancer by Dr. Averill Liebow in 1960. At that time, he highlighted it as a form of well differentiated adenocarcinoma of the lung that appeared to not be able to invade the surrounding lung scaffolding and spread within the lung(s), presumably aerogenously and/or through lymphatic channels.
Under the microscope, an image such as that on the left shows thickened walls of the gas-exchanging sacs in the lungs called alveoli. The classic description of this pattern is lepidic, meaning “scale-like.” X-rays and other imaging shows a picture that looks remarkably like pneumonia, as shown on the right, and probably more than any other kind of lung cancer, patients with BAC are routinely diagnosed as having pneumonia for weeks or months before a diagnosis of cancer is actually established.
The diagnosis has undergone some revisions over the past 50 years, and the most widely used system is still the 1999 definition by the World Health Organization that defines “pure BAC” as a subtype of adenocarcinoma that has no invasive component. Under this strict definition, BAC accounts for only about 2-4% of NSCLC cases, but up to 15-20% of NSCLC tumors have a combination of invasive adenocarcinoma with some component of BAC.
There is actually a continuum from pure BAC to BAC with focal invasion, to adenocarcinoma with BAC features, and then invasive adenocarcinoma with no BAC component:
Although pathologists have sometimes been rigid in their use of the term “BAC” to describe the pure form, many clinicians have observed that the distinctive features of BAC in terms of natural history and behavior can be seen not only with pure BAC but in the more common situation of a combination of BAC with some component of invasive adenocarcinoma. Accordingly, clinicians have generally considered the eligibility for a clinical trial on BAC to depend on having an adenocarcinoma with at least BAC features, rather than restrict to a much msaller population of patients with pure BAC.
There are two main subtypes of BAC. The non-mucinous (NM-BAC) subtype is more common, comprising about 50-60% of cases, while the mucinous (M-BAC) subtype accounts for 30-40%, with the remainder designated as mixed subtype.
Although nearly all work in the field of BAC had not historically made a distinction made a distinction between the two main subtypes, early work is suggesting that the NM-BAC subtype is far more likely to have an EGFR mutation and respond well to oral epidermal growth factor receptor (EGFR) tyrosine kinase inhibitors (TKIs) like Tarceva (erlotinib) and Iressa (gefitinib). In contrast, it appears that K-RAS mutations are more common in patients with M-BAC, in whom it appears that EGFR TKIs may be much less effective overall. However, this work remains very preliminary.
The BAC Population, and BAC symptoms
Although there is some controversy about this, BAC is generally felt to be rising in incidence, or at least being recognized and diagnosed more commonly. This is difficult to measure accurately, because much depends on how strictly or liberally BAC is defined (pure vs. any component of BAC). The demographics of BAC are also unique, in that about 1/3 of patients with BAC are never-smokers, far more than are seen for lung cancer in general, and more women are affected than men, which is a reversal of the trend for other forms of lung cancer.
A little more than half of patients with BAC present with no symptoms but are detected after an incidental finding is noted on chest imaging. The classic imaging finding on CT is a “ground-glass opacity”, which is a non-solid lattice of increased density. In contrast, a semi-solid appearance has been associated with an invasive adenocarcinoma with BAC features, and specifically with the solid comp0nent of a lung lesion generally felt to represent the solid component on a CT scan. More advanced cases typically have multiple tiny lung nodules (sometimes descreibed as a “miliary pattern”) or largerhazy lung infiltrates, which are sometimes diffuse and extensive throughout one or both lungs.
When people have symptoms, it is most commonly a cough, seen in about 30-40% of patients; this is sometimes productive of a frothy sputum, known as bronchorrhea, and this can be very copious, even a liter or more per day. This is generally felt to be a manifestation of the mucinous subtype. Shortness of breath is also a common symptom seen in about a third of patients.
Clinical progression of BAC, and Early BAC
Another important and distinct aspect of BAC is that the rate of progression can be extremely variable. More than any other type of lung cancer, BAC can be so slow that it doesn’t clearly need any treatment for years, growing at a barely perceptible rate from one year to the next. Other BAC tumors can progress rapidly and lead to declines in a patient’s lung capacity and activity level over a matter of just weeks.
The more favorable survival with BAC has been demonstrated for stage I BAC compared with other adenocarcinomas, as shown in a retrospective review out of Massachusetts General Hospital. In some recent series from Asia, the smaller, pure BAC tumors have been associated with a five-year survival actually approaching 100%. Because of this, several Asian studies have demonstrated that surgical outcomes can be excellent even doing a surgery less extensive than a lobectomy for BAC. In some parts of Asia, a wedge resection or segmentectomy are the standard surgical approach for small BAC lesions, and there is increasing interest in and acceptance of this approach in North America for the right case settings. This topic and other special considerations about surgery for BAC are covered in this post.
This has also led to a planned revision by the pathology community, and actually an elimination of the diagnosis of BAC in favor of it being considered “adenocarcinoma in situ” (in situ meaning that it doesn’t invade into the tissues of the lung), technically a non-malignant condition. This reflects the fact that prognosis is extremely good for patients with small, non-invasive lung lesions. The proposal specifies that for people with a mixture of invasive and non-invasive adenocarcinoma, only the non-BAC component be included in the measurement of the tumor when determining stage and estimating prognosis accordingly. The non-invasive component is felt to contribute negligibly to risk of poor outcomes compared with the invasive adenocarcinoma component.
Advanced BAC
Other work from the same group out of Mass General has shown that the median overall survival of patients with advanced BAC is also significantly longer than that of patients with other subtypes of non-small cell lung cancer.
It generally hasn’t been felt that this more prolonged survival has been due to greater responsiveness to chemotherapy. BAC historically hasn’t been very well studied, given that it represents such a small proportion of non-small cell lung cancer cases. They have generally been pooled with other subtypes or sometimes excluded from trials, but in neither situation has it been possible to properly assess how BAC patients do with standard chemotherapy. Limited retrospective reviews have generated far-ranging conclusions.
As shown in the table on the bottom of this slide above, a careful look has shown that the benefit may be comparable between BAC and non-BAC lung cancer, but many oncologists have historically perceived that BAC is resistant to chemotherapy. This may be because the diffuse, poorly defined lung lesions that typify BAC aren’t conducive to measuring tumor shrinkage in the same way as a more solid, circumscribed lung cancer.
But after years of being considered an unusual curiosity in the field of lung cancer, BAC became a source of much greater research focus when it was observed by lung cancer experts at Memorial Sloan Kettering and some other cancer centers that a minority of patients with advanced BAC can have a dramatic and rapid response to the emerging oral agents targeting the epidermal growth factor receptor (EGFR), such as gefitinib (also known as Iressa) and erlotinib (also known as Tarceva). Here you can see patient’s chest x-rays taken just 5 days apart and demonstrating the remarkable response obtained with Iressa over that short time.
In addition, these responses could also be very long-lasting, as shown in this pair of CT scans taken two years apart in a patient with widespread BAC.
In fact, this particular patient had a mixture of adenocarcinoma and non-invasive BAC, so the impressive responses are not just limited just to patients with the pure form of BAC.
This work led to trials of the EGFR inhibitors in advanced BAC. I led one study through the Southwest Oncology Group (SWOG) that administered Iressa at 500 mg per day to patients with advanced BAC or a mixture of adenocarcinoma and BAC. A total of 135 patients with either chemo-naïve or previously treated disease were enrolled, and we saw a response rate of 16% and a median overall survival of 13 months. However, these rather unimpressive results don’t really tell the whole story. Up to 30% of patients had prolonged stable disease even if they didn’t show a response and significantly better overall survival results were seen in certain groups. Women, never-smokers, patients who developed a rash, and those with a better performance status did particularly well. But some patients did remarkably well, including six patients who continued on Iressa without progression for four years or longer. A look at the clinical and molecular characteristics of these patients showed that not all of these patients were women or never-smokers, nor did they necessarily carry an EGFR mutation or show EGFR gene amplification.
In fact, none of these six patients met the criteria for a formal response, but rather they all showed very prolonged non-progression for years, some still ongoing.
A study conducted through Memorial Sloan Kettering looked at a similar population of 101 patients with advanced BAC or adenocarcinoma with BAC features and gave the oral EGFR inhibitor erlotinib, also known as Tarceva, at the standard dose of 150 mg daily. The response rate and survival were a little better than SWOG saw with Iressa, but what the investigators focused on was the particularly favorable results among patients with an EGFR mutation, who showed a response rate of 83% and a median survival of approximately two years. As shown in the so-called “waterfall plot” that shows tumor shrinkage by a bar going downward from the higher horizontal line, most of the best responses, at the far right, are gray bars that note patients with an EGFR mutation.
However, many patients with no mutation, who are shown as orange bars, and even some with K-Ras mutations and shown with blue bars, had good tumor shrinkage or at least stable disease.
This study with Tarceva also showed that responses were more common in never-smokers than in former or current smokers, and in women more than men. In addition, responses were only seen in the patients who developed a rash. There was no evidence that the best results were only in treatment-naïve patients, nor was there any suggestion that results were better for patients with pure form of BAC. If anything, the response rate was better in patients with a mixture of BAC and invasive adenocarcinoma, as shown at the bottom of the table below.
In the last few years, those of us with a major focus on BAC have come to recognize that the two main subtypes of BAC, known as mucinous and non-mucinous, may well have many important and clinically relevant differences, as briefly noted above. Specifically, survival with EGFR inhibitors appears to be best for patients with the non-mucinous BAC or a mixture of adenocarcinoma and BAC, and it’s rather poor with patients who have the mucinous subtype of BAC. This is illustrated in a set of survival curves from the SWOG 0126 trial of Iressa in BAC that I led, broken down by specific histology as interpreted by a central pathology lab:
As shown by the light blue bar, a few patients who were felt to have invasive adenocarcinoma and no BAC were actually enrolled by some institutions, highlighting the variability in interpretation of the BAC diagnosis from one center to another.
This same observation of far better results with Iressa with the non-mucinous subtype of BAC was also seen in a French study:
So while the work assessing differences between BAC subtypes is still preliminary, it appears that the favorable results with EGFR inhibitors are confined to patients with the non-mucinous subtype, and these are more likely to be never-smokers and carry an EGFR mutation. Greater responsiveness to standard chemotherapy agents may be seen in patients with the mucinous BAC subtype, although we have very little evidence to go by here.
Finally, as noted above, there is a plan to have the World Health Organization change the classification of the previously noted spectrum of adenocarcinoma to non-invasive BAC. This is described in detail in a post dedicated to this subject. It remains to be seen whether this will be widely adopted and whether it will have an impact on clinical management.
To summarize, BAC is a unique subtype of lung cancer that accounts for about 2-4% of non-small cell lung cancer cases, but it’s a component in about 15-20% of patients, in combination with invasive adenocarcinoma. Under the microscope, the pure form is noninvasive and spreads thinly over the walls of air sacs, interrupting gas exchange. On x-rays and CT scans, it typically appears as hazy infiltrates, often described as ground-glass opacities, or else as widespread small nodules within the lung only. The patient population typically includes a higher proportion of never-smokers and women than other lung cancer subtypes.
Among the most intriguing aspects in the study of BAC has been its response to treatment, which can include some of the most dramatic and long-lasting responses we ever see in lung cancer and it occurs consistently in a minority of patients who receive an oral EGFR inhibitor like Tarceva or Iressa. Responses may be more likely in certain patient subgroups and may be especially pronounced in patients with an EGFR mutation (this may be the main or only reason we have identified EGFR inhibitors as a preferred treatment for BAC). We are also gaining a new understanding that there may be clinically distinct subgroups even within the rather small population of patients with BAC. The non-mucinous subtype may be especially likely to respond to EGFR inhibitors, while pneumonic BAC, which is typically an aggressive mucinous BAC, has been especially difficult to treat effectively.
For additional information, including details on many aspects of what we’ve touched on here, please check the BAC folder within the subject archives.
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Dr. West, I am curious about any data in regard to the number of ALK mutants with BAC. As you know, I am a veteran of the crizotinib trial (now more than 20 months on trial). I also have mucinous BAC. I am slowly becoming aware of how individual each of our cancers really are. If I were to draw a diagram of circles within circles representing the various subtypes in which my cancer is classified (never smoker, early onset, NSCLC BAC mucinous, ALK +, stage IV, > 5 year survival) it would seem to me that those circles would quickly become smaller and smaller. Correct? Thanks as always for the information. Linnea
Yes, yours is a unique case, but we’ve only had a very small proportion of people with BAC tested for an ALK rearrangement at this time. I do see some patients with mucinous BAC who have a relatively indolent disease and prolonged survival. We may see many more if we routinely do molecular testing and find that there are a significant proportion and many have an ALK rearrangement that can be treated for years with crizotinib. For the benefit of patients with BAC and as someone who has been following the field of BAC for a decade, I’d love to crack another piece of the puzzle by finding that mucinous BAC, which seems so unlikely to harbor an EGFR mutation, is often associated with an ALK rearrangement.
Thanks Dr. West. Should I hear any anecdotal reports from my peers, I will pass them along; as I’d surely like you to find that piece of the puzzle as well. As someone whose cancer seems to be relatively slow growing but also darned persistent, I am always looking around the corner for that next possibility. Until crizotinib, things were looking pretty grim. Although my cancer shows signs of developing resistance to this treatment, it (croizotinib) has bought me an incredible period of good health (in terms of not only extended longevity but quality of life). Everything I have learned about mucinous BAC has pointed to a hard to treat disease, so I am hopeful that several more effective treatments will be discovered. Linnea
Dr West,
Do you ever review a case? Just had a lung biopsy, no labs back but my lungs have 50% ground glass. I am 40 years old and never smoked.
Thank you
Christy Scott
I do second opinions, but at this point I’d need to meet with someone in person for that (trying to see about doing telemedicine consultations, but not quite able at this point).
If the actual diagnosis remains in question after a biopsy, it may be very easy to get a pathology second opinion from a center of excellence just by sending the biopsy material to a pathology department where they have a lot of expertise, but they wouldn’t comment on how to intervene from there. Right now, I think you’d pretty much have to find your way to the particular doctor to get a full-fledged opinion.
Dr. West, my father has what I believe to be BAC in his left lung as well as a more aggressive lung cancer in his other lung. He is 82 years old and does not want chemo, but it would seem that either Tarceva or Iressa may be an optional oral medication that may not only provide an effective response to the BAC but also perhaps to the other cancer. I know it is NSC, but not sure if it is adenocarcinoma. Is Tarceva/Iressa effective against other types of lung cancer? I suspect he has had BAC for a number of years and it has barely changed, but of late it seems to be growing. Not rapidly…just changing more quickly than before. How many years do you think BAC could lie dormant (as it were) with barely noticeable changes? I have had small pleural and subpleural nodules without change for some time, but suddenly now it appears to have tripled over the past 18 months..or perhaps it is just a new nodule. But these nodules had no change in them for 7 years…is it possible for this to be BAC? Sorry for the wandering questions.
The EGFR inhibitors like Tarceva and Iressa have activity in a broader range of NSCLC than just BAC, so it would be very reasonable to try one (Tarceva is the only one currently FDA approved in the US). I can’t give any exact number on how long a BAC could remain dormant, but I actually don’t think it’s really literally dormant as much as extremely slowly growing. However, if there is a combination of slowly-growing cancer and more aggressive cancer, the pace of the whole picture is likely to be dominated by the fraction that is growing at the greatest rate.
Dear Dr West: I recently had a PET Scan and have a lung nodule that grew from 7 mm in early 2009 to 11 mm May 2011; with 0.7 SUV which accounding to the PET Scan is suspicious for BAC. The rest of the PET Scan was negative.I do see a thorasic surgeon this month – but can you tell me do I need to be agressive at this point with treatment if the biopsy does show BAC? I am 58 years old; don’t want too much down time from my job and am also thinking about CyberKnife to treat the 11 mm nodule if it does turn out to be malignant. What are your thoughts? Thank you so very much.
Dr West – I had given the wrong name of what they think the nodule might be suspicious of: My PET Scan says suspicious for: bronchoalveolar carcinoma since SUV was 0.7 on the 11 mm nodule.
Hi Julie,
That’s pretty slow growth. You can read some comments br Dr. West in a similar situation here: http://cancergrace.org/forums/index.php/topic,9585.msg75904.html#msg75904
Jim
Julie,
That’s a very consistent picture of what I’d expect from a very indolent lesion like bronchioloalveolar carcinoma — the imaging shows a very slowly growing lesion (just a few mm over a couple of years), and a low but detectably increased SUV associated with very mildly increased metabolic activity.
When I see someone with this picture who is 79 and has other medical issues, it makes it a pretty easy decision to recommend against intervening, because the pace of the apparent cancer (which we would want to confirm with a biopsy before treating) is likely to be so slow that the time line to developing a problem from it is likely to be far longer than the time to develop other, more threatening medical problems. When I see this in a 58 year old without medical problems, it’s still indicative of a very slow process with a prognosis that goes out years and years, but it is more likely to have a clinically meaningful impact if for no other reason than that there are no other apparent competing medical concerns on the horizon. Consequently, I think a much stronger argument can be made for treating an isolated and very indolent cancer in someone with a prognosis that may well go out decades otherwise.
With regard to the specific therapy, surgery would be the historical best textbook answer, but this is a situation in which I would be very receptive to the idea of focal radiation. It is likely to be effective (especially for a still very small lesion), have few adverse effects than surgery, and it is more likely to preserve surrounding lung tissue that often ends up being very needed if BAC recurs in a multifocal form in the future and thereby limits functional lung.
-Dr. West
Thank you so much. I was wondering why is there more adverse effects from cyberknife than surgery? I called a cyberknife facility & was told they would have to radiate 14 mm for the 11 mm nodule.
Very informative.
No, no. I would say that there should be fewer adverse effects from stereotactic radiosurgery, such as cyberknife, compared with surgery.
-Dr. West
Dear Dr West: I totally appreciate your very informative input to my concerns. After I go to the Thorasic Surgeon in 2 weeks I will post what he suggests; but I am really leaning towards havingt a procedure like cyberknife done instead of traditional removal of the lung. I have no other health issues at this time. Feel great – but this nodule has been watched by my primary doctor for the last 2 years. Thanks again. Julie.
Jim thanks !!!
I forgot to tell you that my insurance is not going to cover CyberKnife if I need it – I may have to wait until January 2012 to get a PPO so I can get it done. I had originally asked my doctor to get an authorization for me to see a CyberKnife doctor at their facility – they declined to authorize it. The CyberKnife doctor said they could do the biopsy and at the same time insert the markers just in case I will need CyberKnife treatment.
I need your help again. I just came back from seeing the thoracic surgeon and for my 11 mm nodule he wants to do a Video Assisted Thorocoscopic Surgery and while I am still under have the nodule biopsied and remove my lobe if it is suspicious for cancer. He also wants to check all my other 1-2 mm nodules at the same time and remove all my lymph nodes (whether I have cancer or not) because he said I do not need the lymph nodes? This seems very extreme. I just called my medical group and found out my primary doctor did not even try to get authorization for a consultation for cyberknife. What do you think? I need your help. Thank you, Julie
I think the surgeon is treating your case as a standard NSCLC tumor, which is understandable. The treatment recommendations made are what would be pretty clearly ideal for a faster-growing cancer with no suggestion of any other nodules. I suspect the surgeon is trying to offer the textbook correct answer for how to manage a lung cancer that may be early stage. While many people might tailor the reocmmendations based on the appearance of this being a slower-growing BAC, that’s not a universal standard.
Yours is a situation in which a second opinion may be reassuring or may give you further reason to question the first recommendation. I think that these are really very individual situations in which a consultant needs to have more direct access to all of the information available before trying to make any specific recommendations.
-Dr. West
Yes your right – I need a second opinion. You are exactly right – he is treating me like a very aggressive cancer. I asked if I can wait until September – he said NO, I need to do this right away – get the VAC and get my lymph nodes removed whether I had cancer of not. I totally want to get another opinion and am disappointed that my primary doctor did not put thru an authorization for a cyberknife consultation. Thank you Dr – I did call my primary doctor today after I went to this doctor and was told “You don’t need cyberknife” I told the doctor that I would not get cyberknife unless the biopsy showed cancer. My doctor was puzzled – asked me if the facility would actually do a biopsy???. Thanks again for your help. Julie
Dear Dr. West: My doctor is sending me to the “Orange County Radiation Oncology Center”. I did call them and they told me they have treatments similiar to CyberKnife. I think my insurance at this time will not cover a CyberKnife facility unless I get a PPO. I was not aware you could get CyberKnife treatment outside of a CyberKnife facility. I have an appointment, but the problem is I still need to find a doctor to do a needle biopsy to confirm if I have a malignancy. The last doctor only specified VATS; and with VATS I do not have an opportunity to choose the treatment I want. I just get a lobe removed with all my lymph nodes in my lung if it turns out to be a malignancy. I also am concerned that they may not actually offer a treatment like CyberKnife; but I will wait for my appointment. Do you know if other facilities offer CyberKnife like treatment? I know you really are active in treatments for cancer and your opinion on this means so much to me. Thank you – Julie.
Julie,
I’m sorry to say that these kinds of very practical and specific questions are not the one’s we’re really able to address here. In addition, I’m a medical oncologist nearly 1000 miles from there, so I don’t address the details of exactly which type of radiation is available or preferred in this setting. A radiation oncologist would be better able to address this issue, but the general concept is of “stereotactic radiation”, of which CyberKnife is just one but certainly not the only one.
-Dr. West
Thank you so much for your input. Yes your are right – I need to go to the facility and investigate what treatments are available., yes the doctor is a Radiation Oncologist and I will see him sometime this week. Thank you so very much for your very informative input. I will keep you updated …. Julie.
Just curious – have you heard that a biopsy can cause a cancer to spread. They want to do a needle biopsy on the nodule on my lower left lung. It is away from all blood vessels etc that can cause a problem during the biopsy (per the radiation oncologist). Then it is finding the right treatment. I sure hope my insurance will cover cyberknife in my case. The doctor said I was a lucky lady that the nodule is where it is and has an SUV of 0.7 and it was found so early. Have a great 4th !!!
Yes, that’s vanishingly unlikely. It’s very standard and overwhelmingly more likely to be helpful than harmful to biopsy a lung lesion that is suspicious for being a cancer.
-Dr. West
Hi Dr West – I had the needle biopsy yesterday morning – they took two samples – my lung collapsed and now I have a tube in my chest for a few day.
The pathology report states that I do not have lung cancer. I was in total shock when they told me.
Why the SUV was 0.7 is probably because I have some type of infection.
Thank you. Have a great weekend – Julie
Julie! No lung cancer? That’s really great news. Sorry about the collapsed lung though. I hope you are able to celebrate soon.
I get the chest tube out Monday (tomorrow) morning after they do a chest X-Ray to make sure my lung is OK. I went to the swap meet today and kept busy. Did more than I should with a chest tube on.
And yes – I was so happy with the news. I have been having CTs for 2 years and 3 months now!
Didn’t think about celebrating – good idea. I think I will ask my husband to take me out next weekend.
And thank you ts!
Hi – I went and got the chest tube out – X-ray showed that my lungs were ok. My nodule showed fibrosis with inflammation. They took two different biopsies of the 11 mm nodule. I have had slight shortness of breath for 30 years. Doctor said they have to keep doing CT Scans just in case it does turn into cancer. Now what does that mean? Fibrosis w/inflamation turns into cancer? This problem with my lung is never ending.
Thank you,
Julie
There is some question of whether cancers can arise from prior scars/inflammation. I would say the evidence is pretty sketchy, and that it’s more likely that the question is really whether there is some cancer in the background that wasn’t sampled. It would be most helpful to clarify with your doctor what the reasoning is that there is a remaining risk of cancer if the current diagnosis is felt to be clear from the biopsies.
-Dr. West
My primary doctor said I need follow-up. My doctor’s specialty is Internal Medicine. I had the ultimate test done – needle biopsy and now am told further follow up is necessay. They checked two sections of the nodule; no cancer. I have multi-focal 1 – 2 mm nodules in my lungs.
I am feeling great now that my collapsed lung has healed.
Thank you Dr. West – your input means alot to me.
Sincerely, Julie
I’m glad you’re feeling well. I hope your follow up scans remain very stable.
-Dr. West
Thank you Dr. West for everything. You have helped me so much in dealing with the nodules these past two years. Very sincerely, Julie
I have been researching this topic for the past few weeks since my mother was diagnosed with BAC through a needle biopsy. Yours is the clearest summary I have seen of the state of knowledge about BAC, so thank you, Dr. West. I have been unable to find any studies that look at outcomes with no surgery or other treatment. My mother is 81 years old and is being pushed toward wedge surgery by her doctors, but I’m wondering if it’s advisable given her age and the fact that it’s slow-growing and possibly nonmalignant as you say. The biopsy surgeon said it didn’t look like cancer on the CT scan, more like an infection. Since it has only recently become apparent that it’s a different animal from other adenocarcinomas, I’m just wondering if researchers have even considered whether no treatment for stage I might give just as good an outcome as surgery or radiation. My mother’s tumor went from 1 cm to 1.2 from Dec 2009 to May 2011 and then jumped to 2.0 cm for a PET scan a month later. It was 2.2 cm during the biopsy in late Sept. Is it possible that the radiation from all the screening might be causing it to grow? She has had annual mammograms for 30 years now too (could that be why BAC is more common in women?). If so, wouldn’t radiation therapy make it grow more? Also, with the wedge surgery, they will remove the lymph nodes–wouldn’t that be removing her defense against it? I saw one study that suggested removing a single node might cause it to go multinodal.
I would say that with that kind of interval growth, it’s not that indolent, so it’s in the range of a clinically relevant cancer, not just one that can safely be ignored.
The amount of radiation in these diagnostic studies is completely irrelevant, and I would say that there isn’t any remote basis for concern about radiation from diagnostic studies (whether CT scans or prior mammograms) facilitating or accelerating these cancers.
There are also many lymph nodes in the chest and in many areas throughout the body, so removing some is only associated with better outcomes, probably from being able to stage a person’s cancer more accurately. There is no real evidence or even suspicion among leading people in the field that it either leaves someone significantly more at risk for infection or facilitates spread of the cancer.
-Dr. West
Thank you, Dr. West. Yes, I can see how the surgery may be advisable if only to get a better look at the extent of the problem. I forgot to mention that my mother has emphysema (she quit smoking 35 years ago), so cannot afford to lose much lung. Also, is there any evidence that removing a single BAC with wedge surgery could cause it to recur multifocally?
No, there is no evidence that a wedge resection would facilitate multifocal recurrence. That can certainly happen over a period of time, whether a person has surgery or doesn’t.
-Dr. West
I got BAC and have had all the traditional treatments and a bunch of clinical trials. I had the right lung removed 18 months ago. BAC appeared in the left lung about a year ago. I’ve tried Cisplastin, Avastin, Tarceva amoung others and most recently MDX/PD-1. MDX was the only one that slowed the growth — for a while.
One of the options in front of me is a lung transplant. Do you have any survival rate statistics? Is a transplant common for BAC patients?
David,
There aren’t real stats. Transplants have been tried in small series of patients here and there, with short-term follow-up looking good in the year or two after surgery, but then no long term follow-up reported. My understanding is that there are typically recurrences long term, and it’s not really clear that this is actually curative for people in very high risk (otherwise incurable) situations. Because BAC can often progress slowly, and this surgery is most likely to be offered to unusually fit patients, it’s not clear at all that lung transplants as a treatment for BAC really add beyond what would happen with these people anyway (they are more likely to be the ones to do well for a few years). It’s certainly not a common intervention and not one that is routinely recommended by lung cancer experts.
-Dr. West
I have been reading about BAC recently and am wondering if I might have some of it..I get scanned evry 2 months and I don’t get copies of them any more because I will just obsess like crazy over them until I make myself totally crazy. But…the last one I had I noticed “ground glass” on it when the doc was holding it and telling me it is good..still stable . What I know is my last “main” nodule is cavitating and was the lowest SUV on my original PET way back when. But, I found out I have about 6 tiny (Under 6mm)nodules scattered in my right lung(everything that is left is in my right lung)that haven’t changed all this time. I get my next scans 11/16..I am going to get a copy of this one. My Doc (who is awesome btw) has not mentioned BAC but I think he follows my lead in how much detail we go into. If I bring it up, I know he will discuss it with me and tell me if I have it. I have been stable since finishing chemo in Jan and am on maintenance avastin. I know it is possible to have BAC and Adeno right? My biopsy was done on my lymph node and was adeno.
My mother had wedge surgery on Nov. 2, but they ended up taking almost half a lobe because the tumor was deeper than anticipated. The surgery was very hard on her, but because my sister stayed with her constantly for a week and a half, she is recovering pretty well now. They determined the tumor is invasive poorly differentiated adenocarcinoma with focal bronchioloalveolar growth pattern, grade 3. There was no spread to lymph nodes, and the tumor was 2.2 cm, but the oncologist told me it was stage 1B. The two tests for targeted therapy were negative, so the oncologist recommended radiation therapy. My mother is already worn out from surgery, and I am worried radiation will be too much for her. What do you think?
Steff,
It’s absolutely possible and in fact very common to have a combination of BAC and invasive adenocarcinoma together.
kmfitz,
The role for radiation after a wedge resection is debatable and not clearly indicated if the surgical margins are negative for tumor involvement. The most common approach would be to do a “completion lobectomy” if a person can tolerate it. A wedge resection is associated with a less favorable overall survival than a lobectomy for patients who are under around 71 — in older patients, there is evidence to suggest that survival can be as good with a surgery less than a lobectomy.
Overall, post-operative radiation is most commonly employed in the setting of positive surgical margins (tumor present at a margin) or with mediastinal (mid-chest) lymph nodes involved.
As an aside, I’d say that this kind of tumor (invasive adenocarcinoma with focal bronchioloalveolar growth pattern) is treated entirely as a standard NSCLC tumor — nothing about the BAC is directly relevant to its management, based on what you’re telling me.
-Dr. West
Thank you, Dr. West. I don’t know if you remember from my previous posts, but my mother is 81 years old. From the pathologist report, in the first section, the tumor was abutting against the margins, so the surgeon took a second section, in which the margins were clear. The oncologist said he took the second section because they found tumor at the margins, but the surgeon told us simply that the tumor was deeper than expected. So maybe it is just a matter of confusion on the oncologist’s part. Do you know the average survival rate for a standard NSCLC tumor after surgery? I will try checking in that section on this website. Thanks again.
That’s really so variable based on other factors that it’s not a question that makes much sense when stated that broadly. It’s like asking, “how much longer should an 81 year-old expect to live?”.
It depends on the stage of the cancer, histology of the cancer, other competing medical problems a patient may have, etc. In truth, there is so little data on older patients with BAC that I don’t think it’s possible to glean any meaningful information from statistics. There aren’t enough good quality data to address a very individual situation.
-Dr. West
Dr. West
My father had a biopsey done and the pathologist said he has BAC, nothing showed up on the PET, which I have read is normal. With BAC being a not as common form of lung cancer I haven’t found to many user friendly websites. I will be going with him to the onconolgist next Tuesday and need some help.
1. What kinds of questions should I ask to make sure I understand my fathers situation and options fully?
2. NM-BAC and M-BAC, what are the different risk and concerns between the two. Also, if he has been coughing up white mucus does it mean he has M-BAC?
3. What are ALK arrangements and how do they effect BAC?
4. Could you let me know what different types of treatment are avaiable?
Thanks for any type of help you can give.
Ronald
I answered as many of these questions as I could feasibly do on the discussion forum, where you had these same questions posted. Actually, I’m not sure I got to the ALK question, but it’s really too early to say much. BAC is a subtype of adenocarcinoma, and ALK rearrangements are definitely seen in adenocarcinomas, but there hasn’t been enough research to say anything definitive about the prevalence of ALK rearrangements in either BAC subtype: I’m just definitely inclined to test for ALK in patients with BAC, but I don’t think we can say much about what to expect.
I hope that between the posts here and my responses, we can provide guidance that is helpful.
-Dr. West
Dr. West,
I am desperate for some guidance.
My husband was diagnosed with stage four adenocarcinoma with BAC in August last year. As you may, or may not, recall from my previous post.
We started chemo in December and did a full round ending two weeks ago.
Treatment was Avastin, Taxol and carboplatin.
We did treatments every week for the full round of three treatments. he tolerated them better than most, but has of resent lost his appetite and has slept much of the three months away.
We just got the results of the CT scan to see if there was a response or not and unfortunately we were told today there was no response…. as you can imagine we are devastated.
We were offered Alimta to in their words “maybe help prolong his life a little more.”
We were told we most likely do not have years, but months.
Here is where I need your help; I need to make sure I have given this 100% for my own piece of mind and as the pressure from his family to do more mounts.
Should we see another doctor?
Is there more out there in terms of treatment that the regional cancer treatment center is maybe unaware of?
They (family) keep saying go to a very well advertised place who speaks of some miracle they performed on a woman who was also told she was going to die <~~~ do they know something the rest of the treatment centers don't?
Do you have a suggestion on an alternative treatment?
Thanks for anything you can help me with.
Hi Linny_B. I’m so sorry to hear about your husband. There are no miracle cures in lung cancer, but there are some good drugs that can prolong life. Alimta has helped a number of people here. Have your husband’s doctors considered Tarceva? As to second opinions, I’m linking to a post by Dr Weiss about how to approach a second opinion and what to ask:
http://cancergrace.org/cancer-101/2011/11/13/an-insider%E2%80%99s-guide-to-the-second-opinion/
Very best.
I’m very sorry to hear about your story. Please understand that we cannot give you direct medical advice, but rather are limited to discussing general principles of treatment.
You say there was not a response, but was there worsening (progression) of the cancer? Stable disease is still a favorable outcome and does not mean the treatment is not working, so wanted to make sure.
For patients who progress on platinum doublet chemotherapy, second line options like pemetrexed or Tarceva are reasonable options but the assessment of “months not years” is accurate for most patients in this situation. Another common alternative is a clinical trial, which is an experimental treatment and the exact details of trials would vary by institution. Please understand that a trial does not guarantee a better outcome, just the options of something different and may add to our knowledge of disease that may help others down the road.
As for the “well advertised” cancer center, I am sure I know who you are referring to and in my opinion they do not offer ANYTHING you cannot get at a reputable regional medical center except for hype and expense. This is only my personal opinion.
However, a second opinion somewhere does make sense if you are confused or worried that you may not be hearing all the options. Just for your own peace of mind I am a big fan of second opinions.
I agree with Dr. Pennell’s comments and would just add that if someone hasn’t had a particularly good response to first line chemotherapy-based treatment, this makes me more inclined to favor Tarceva (erlotinib) as a non-chemotherapy “wild card”; people rarely do better with later lines of chemotherapy than they did in the first line setting.
I also definitely agree that the centers offering a very different level of hope are almost certainly peddling false hope, which is a very profitable ruse for people desperate for new answers to difficult questions. The old dictum that “if something seems too good to be true, it almost certainly is” still rings true.
-Dr. West
Linny_B, I’m sorry you are having to deal with all this, and family pressure makes it that much harder. We had the same situation with our children until we got a second opinion from a well respected teaching hospital that agreed with the diagnosis and treatment offered by our local oncologist. Now we rely mainly with the local oncologist, seeing the other for another second opinion as the situation changes. At this point it is working well for us.
Follansbee
Thank you all so much for your responses.
- Dr. Pennell, by “no response” I meant worsening, not getting better.. I should have clarified.
I appreciate everyone’s response and I feel as though I have the information I need to make a better decision.
I feel helpless and my nature is to fix everything and I am beside myself with this.
We will be seeing the oncologist next week, so I am going armed with a little more information and that’s the best I can hope for.
You have no idea how much i appreciate all of the responses.
I feel so much support and caring here on this site
~Linny
Hello, Linny, and I am so sorry you are going through all this. My father, mother and father-in-law all have/have had very serious and in 2 out of 3 cases inoperable cancer. My dad’s is Stage IV/metastatic but he is now going on his 6th year since diagnosis. From all this my husband and I have become firm believers in second opinions from top-notch specialists like those here on cancergrace (and Dr. Weiss has a great article explaining why this can be so helpful). Depending on where you are, your oncologist may be very good but just have to be a jack-of-all-trades and not be aware of other possibilities your husband might benefit from. You didn’t mention at all whether you had had molecular testing done, but in certain cases knowing that information can make an enormous difference in effectively treating a particular type of cancer. From our experience, if you are able to do so, I would get a second opinion from a major research center. You can look at where the docs are geographically on this site, and of course there the places like MD Anderson, Mayo Clinic, Sloan Kettering, Johns Hopkins, most of which are set up in a such a way that they have inns/hotels/shuttles connecting directly to the hospitals. It may seem like a big deal to get there, but once you are there you will likely find everything is managed well for you, and all in one place, with top-notch doctors. In our case, getting to Mayo Clinic in Rochester for surgery made all the difference for my dad. If resources are an issue, you might have to do some digging on the internet, but there are some companies that offer help (Corporate Angels Network, flying patients to treatment, or places that offer free lodging while you receive radiation, that sort of thing). Whether or not you can get to a major center, I would encourage you to ask your doctor about the molecular testing; there is a lot about that on this website. all the best to you.
Regarding Linney_B’s husband:
Hasn’t mutation testing been suggested before? At the very least for EGFR and ALK. Smokers are more likely to have the not-so-good KRAS mutation driving their cancer instead, but even never-smokers have a higher chance of KRAS than rarer ones like the Xalkori-druggable (via drug trial) ROS1, so one would be triple-negative for EGFR, ALK, and KRAS before testing for ROS1 might be worthwhile. Did I miss something about his history like he was already tested? If EGFR (and not one of the resistant variants like T790M on exon 20), then Tarceva is likely to help for a number of months; if ALK or ROS1, Xalkori is likely to help for a number of months.
I have mucinous BAC/adenocarcinoma that was assumed to be unlikely to respond to conventional chemo. Testing by Dr. Shaw at the Harvard-affiliated MGH in Boston uncovered I have the rare ROS1 mutation that her team was leading research on, enabling me to join the Xalkori-for-ROS1 trial. My symptoms vanished (mostly) within a day or so, the cancer shrank and remains stable over 5 months later. If I had not pushed for mutation testing until I had the name of my enemy (ROS1), my right lung would be half way to total crap by now. This disease will eventually kill me, but not yet. Not everyone is lucky enough to have a drug-targetable mutation, but more than half of never-smoker adenocarcinomas are lucky (and some smokers and some other NSCLC’s too).
BTW, where are you located, Linny_B?
Best hopes,
Dr West it is me again. Can you tell me if you recieved my second posting to you, gosh I am sorry I seem to be having probs navigating the site I think. Will endevour to keep trying as I would truly appreciate your thoughts,
I’m not sure I did. Please go to “ASK A QUESTION ABOUT ____”, then click on lung cancer in the pull-down menu, and you can start a discussion thread.
I’d be happy to provide some general thoughts and information, but please don’t provide a huge amount of detail and request a recommendation for treatment. That’s not a service we’re legally permitted to pursue.
-Dr. West
maybe should try being brief here and you may see and reply? Here goes. I am female 53 ex smoker. Gave up 7 yrs ago, smoked approx 10 a day for 20yrs. Developed nasty cough 2000. Not what most would call a normal cough, the cough I had/still have can truly be awful. Mostly productive, mostly white, very white actually and frothy. When infection poresent, which is more often nowadays, then sputum can be green. Diagnosed with Vin 111 2005, surgical removal of clitoral area and surrounding , clear margins achieved. My cough cough cough has much attention from both my family Dr ( GP) & specialist alike. Initial diagnosis, Asthma, then COPD, then COPD with elements of Asthma, bronchitis. Treatments have been spriva,seritide, uniphyllin, daily for pass 10 yrs peak flows 250/280 always. . Bronchcospy x 2 showed diffusely inflammed bilateral airways. Steriods 15mg introduced to try to get inflammation under control. Also NERD suggested and Zoton fast tabs 2 x daily. CT scan 2010 showed bilateral multiply lung nodules. Follow up for year one, no changes, follow up 18moth slight change one single lower left lung nodule, 2yrs scan indicated growth and again slight change in appearance. CT/PET scan arranged . Results inconclusive. uptake from the nodule of concern mild ( 1.7). Ruled out primary lung cancer & metasticies. Differentials….. adenoma, hamartoma, chondroma.. Then states ” there is small possibilty of a small BAC or Carcinoid. Even with such small change can not be confident nodule benign. Wonder if nexgt best step for lady ( if suitable) resection for diagnosis and cure.
My consultant and multi team discussed and informed me needle biospy. I am unhappy, unsure, confused.
Question. If benign why would they want to biopsy. If as pet scan report suggest maybe small BAC will needle biopsy confirm, my research on BAC makes me feel not, that the only unequivacal way to confirm BAC surgical removal. Can carcinoid be confirmed by needle biopsy. I really just want them to remove it if at all possibvle. Am I being to drastic. Any thoughts you can share would be so appreciated. Many thanks. Peg99
They aren’t saying it’s definitely benign: that’s what the biopsy would hope to confirm. It’s true that a needle biopsy doesn’t provide a diagnosis of BAC, but you can get a good sense from a core biopsy of the likely scenario, compared with a fine needle aspirate (FNA), which provides considerably less information. A carcinoid could also be diagnosed by the same procedure.
It isn’t feasible to remove it all if you’re saying that there are many nodules in the lungs…and I don’t think that would be a remotely desirable thing to do if there are many and they aren’t growing over a course of years of follow up (with just a single nodule changing minimally).
It sounds like this may well be multifocal BAC, but one that is growing so incredibly slowly that there is arguably a greater risk from overtreatment than from undertreatment. Specifically, it’s hard to understand the value of doing any intervention in this situation.
Good luck.
-Dr. West
Dr West first may I thank you so very much for replying, it is very appreciated. I do have multiply lung nodules, 7/8 right lung 6/7 left. Have been monitored over past 2 yrs, and prior to CT/PET which was done 4/3/2012 Dr said he was satisified no need to be concerned about any of the nodules other than the one in lower left lung that showed minimal growth twice over a one year period and was conspicious? My understanding of BAC is that mostly it is a very slow growing type of cancer. May I ask you if I have interepreted your last remarks correctly. You feel it is hard to understand the value of doing any intervention in this situation ? Just leave it, do nothing ?? May I also just ask this, is it possible that the chronic, not very responsive to meds, cough cough cough I have could be connected. Also it is true that they are not saying it is benign, however my worry is if they were to biopsy and result was benign, how would that rule out BAC if BAC can not be confirmed ? Does that make sense ? Thank you, truly for your time and thoughts, both are very appreciated.
peg99
I couldn’t say whether the cough is likely connected without seeing the films directly. If these nodules were involving a significant fraction of your lungs, then yes, a cough could well be related to these nodules. But it sounds like these are very small, so a little peppering of small nodules in a sea of good lung tissue probably wouldn’t cause any symptoms.
I understand that you can’t be completely reassured a lesion is benign even if it doesn’t show a cancer on the biopsy. I think the question of whether to do a biopsy depends on what you’d do with the information. If you found that it’s cancer, would you want to take out one lesion and leave >10 others behind? The only argument you could make for that is that this would make sense if the others aren’t growing at any perceptible rate AND the one that is growing is progressing at a pace that would be anticipated to be clinically relevant. In other words, if it’s growing by a millimeter every year, it’s hard to feel that there is a clear urgency to intervening against that one spot, especially if others could eventually show progression over years and years. On the other hand, if it looks like one lesion is clearly outpacing everything else and likely to cause problems long before anything else would, that’s a situation in which going after the one growing lesion (I think of it as “getting the lead runner”, to use a baseball analogy) does make sense, I’d say.
-Dr. West
Again thank you very kindly. I will think very long and hard about questions to put to the specialist looking after me. Will pop back to see you too and let u know where I am at from time to time.
Enjoy your evening
peg99