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This topic contains 29 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by  Dr West 6 months, 1 week ago.

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August 29, 2012 at 9:18 pm  #1247449    

Tong

Dear consultant,

My sister diagnosed to have metatstatic breast cancer on July 2011 which undergoing surgery on Nov 2011, radiation therapy on Dec 2011 and chemotherapy as well as targeted therapy Herceptin for 18 doses with the start of tamoxifen since January this year. She is ER strong positive, PR negative, C-erb B2 equivocal as shown on surgical specimen. Since the disease showed progression with the increasing in bone metatstasis on spine, shoulder and pelvic region in recent PET scan on June 2012 , oncologist suggested her to do ovarian ablation using RT and using another hormonal drug called AI. As I think that Tamoxifen has no benefit to my sister, then is another hormonal drug may help? My another concern is that ovarian ablation may induce some other adverse effect on the body as it may interfere with the hormonal/eco system inside the body. Besides, my sister already got multiple bone metatasis , one of the side effect of AI may induce osteoporosis, then would it make the bone more osteopenic and therefore easier to break. Do you think ovarian ablation is really got beneficial to my sister? What is the gain in survival rate as well as the psychological benefit with the use of it? I know that you may think that I have too much worry but I really want to think of the best way of treatment to my sister and she can maintain her quality of life during her last time. We are very afraid to do as we think that it might not be useful, so we are now just depending on Chinese medicine alone. Besides, I may start using alternative cancer treatment suggested by Budwig center which based on the alternation of diet and have additonal nutritional supplement for the patient. I know that cancer patient may end in a difficult life. My only wish is that sister can maintain her quality of life and we can live under psychological healthiness. Looking forward for your advice on the future management of my sister.

With many thanks for your advice,
Tong Teresa

August 30, 2012 at 6:12 am  #1247461    

catdander forum moderator

Hello Teresa, I’m very sorry your sister is dealing with such an awful disease.

Please take a few minutes to read the link below and look at the focused breast cancer posts. Dr. Cianfrocca has spent a great deal of time preparing this information to help with many of the common questions people have. They are very easy to read and understand. I hope you can find a better understanding from them.

Too, I will contact her for more input on your questions. You should here back from within 12 hours.

Janine
forum moderator

This is a link to Dr. Cianfrocca’s introduction to understanding breast cancer

http://cancergrace.org/breast-cancer/2011/09/06/breast-cancer-101/

Also, at the top of each page you will find a green bar with one section entitled “Focused Cancer Info” click on it and pick breast cancer for much more information.


catdander’s husband:
8/25/09 thoracotomy biop dx stage 3a squam nsclc pancoast tumor right
9/16-11/4/09 chemorads cis/etop,
10/30 MRI to brachial plexus found c3 met changed stage 4
11/9-20 rads to c3 w/concurrent 11/9-1/18/2010 carbo/navelbine
Feb-Nov 2010 tarceva until first progression 11/29/2010 3cm upper left.
12/14/2010 Gemzar
Scans remain stable on Dec. 2011 still on Gemzar.
NED March, July, Nov 2012,Feb, and May 2013. Treatment break began late July 2012.

August 30, 2012 at 7:31 am  #1247464    

catdander forum moderator

Teresa, I’m sorry but our breast cancer specialist will be out of her office today. We will try again tomorrow. I think this will give you a good opportunity to familiarize yourself (if you haven’t already) with the information I posted in the previous post.
If your inquiries have changed once you’ve read more indepth info, great. We’re doing our job! Please let us know if they have.

Best to you and your sister,
Janine
fm


catdander’s husband:
8/25/09 thoracotomy biop dx stage 3a squam nsclc pancoast tumor right
9/16-11/4/09 chemorads cis/etop,
10/30 MRI to brachial plexus found c3 met changed stage 4
11/9-20 rads to c3 w/concurrent 11/9-1/18/2010 carbo/navelbine
Feb-Nov 2010 tarceva until first progression 11/29/2010 3cm upper left.
12/14/2010 Gemzar
Scans remain stable on Dec. 2011 still on Gemzar.
NED March, July, Nov 2012,Feb, and May 2013. Treatment break began late July 2012.

August 30, 2012 at 9:55 am  #1247470    

Dr West

This being the end of the summer, I suspect Dr. Cianfrocca may well be on vacation or speaking somewhere (she’s in the Phoenix area, so perhaps she snuck out to somewhere less likely to be over 100 degrees). However, I can assure you that an aromatase inhibitor, or AI, is really a cornerstone of treatment for patients with hormone receptor-positive breast cancer, particularly after they have progressed on tamoxifen, but this needs to be accompanied by ovarian ablation in premenopausal women. I can’t quote you hard stats on the proven survival benefit, but this intervention is really widely accepted as being potentially beneficial for months and sometimes years, and an AI is an oral agent that is also typically pretty well tolerated, primarily with issues of muscle and joint aches as the leading issue (though variable). Though we all have our biases, I would say that both hormone therapy and chemotherapy for metastatic breast cancer has a much more established benefit than the Budwig diet, various self-promoting nutritional supplements, etc. By all means, an informed adult can accept or refuse whatever treatments they want, but I would recommend hormone therapy and potentially chemotherapy (generally with chemo following the time when hormone therapies have done what they can do) are what I would recommend for my own family member, far ahead of other ideas that I think have some marketing appeal but little actual quality evidence to show they really help.

-Dr. West


Howard (Jack) West, MD
Medical Oncologist

Views expressed here represent my opinion, not those of GRACE or Swedish Cancer Institute. This information does not constitute medical advice and is intended to supplement and not replace medical information provided by your doctor.

August 30, 2012 at 6:12 pm  #1247475    

Dr Cianfrocca

As Dr West said, using a hormonal drug such as tamoxifen or an aromatase inhibitor is standard when the breast cancer is ER-positive. Tamoxifen and AIs work differently and an AI can work even when tamoxifen does not. However, as Dr West said, an AI can only work if your sister is postmenopausal (ovaries not working). In regards to AIs weakening the bones, that is usually not an issue with metastatic breast cancer to bone because we routinely give bone-strenghtening drugs such as xgeva or zometa to those women.

All the best,
Dr Cianfrocca


Mary Cianfrocca, D.O., FACP
Director of Breast Cancer Program

Views expressed here represent my opinion, not those of GRACE or Banner MD Anderson Cancer Center. This information does not constitute medical advice and is intended to supplement and not replace medical information provided by your doctor.

August 30, 2012 at 8:32 pm  #1247477    

Tong

Dear doctors,
As my sister is on bromocriptin for the control on her prolactinoma since 1995, does it affect the function of AI? Besides,if our clinician dosen’ t supply us zometa with the combination of AI, can i proceed to AI?
As far as you know, is budwig protocol combination with hormonal therapy beneficial to patient?
With many thanks,
Teresa

August 30, 2012 at 9:50 pm  #1247478    

Dr West

I’ll need to see what we can find out about bromocriptine; it doesn’t come up as an issue in my lung cancer patients.

It’s not that a drug like Zometa is absolutely critical for patients receiving an AI, but it can combat the acceleration of osteoporosis that can occur with hormone therapies. However, it’s not our place to make a medical recommendation for whether someone here should or shouldn’t pursue a specific treatment.

I am not aware of any actual evidence that indicates a significant benefit of the Budwig protocol with hormone therapy or in metastatic breast cancer in general.

-Dr. West


Howard (Jack) West, MD
Medical Oncologist

Views expressed here represent my opinion, not those of GRACE or Swedish Cancer Institute. This information does not constitute medical advice and is intended to supplement and not replace medical information provided by your doctor.

August 31, 2012 at 1:21 am  #1247480    

Tong

Dear Dr West,
Thank you again for your opinion, may i ask how can i get the information about interaction between AI and bromocriptin.
Yours,
Teresa

August 31, 2012 at 7:53 am  #1247482    

catdander forum moderator

Hi Tong, I hope you feel more equiped to know your sister’s situation and ways that may help. I must confess reading your interaction with these two doctors reminds me how little I know about most of this. As you can see from my signature below my husband has lung cancer. The treatments are very different between lung and breast cancer.
You want to know more about the interaction between Al and bromocriptin. I googled it yesterday but came up with nothing. We will wait and see if Dr. West comes up with anything. Maybe he will also let us know how or where he found his information if he finds it.

The best to you both,
Janine


catdander’s husband:
8/25/09 thoracotomy biop dx stage 3a squam nsclc pancoast tumor right
9/16-11/4/09 chemorads cis/etop,
10/30 MRI to brachial plexus found c3 met changed stage 4
11/9-20 rads to c3 w/concurrent 11/9-1/18/2010 carbo/navelbine
Feb-Nov 2010 tarceva until first progression 11/29/2010 3cm upper left.
12/14/2010 Gemzar
Scans remain stable on Dec. 2011 still on Gemzar.
NED March, July, Nov 2012,Feb, and May 2013. Treatment break began late July 2012.

August 31, 2012 at 7:58 am  #1247483    

Dr Cianfrocca

The purpose of a drug like zometa or xgeva for patients like your sister is not so much to prevent osteoporosis due to an AI. The purpose is to prevent fractures and other complications that can occur when cancer is already in the bone. However I want to emphasize Dr West’s comment that it is not our place to make medical recommendations since we don’t know and are not treating your sister. There is likely a very valid reason that she is not receiving one of these drugs.

Bromocriptine can induce ovulation and therefore make an AI ineffective. This should not be an issue however if her ovaries are radiated or removed. A woman absolutely must be completely postmenopausal to be able to benefit from an AI. Your sister should be sure to discuss any concerns about interactions between any of her medications with all her treating physicians

I am not familiar enough with the Budwig protocol to comment on it.

Dr Cianfrocca


Mary Cianfrocca, D.O., FACP
Director of Breast Cancer Program

Views expressed here represent my opinion, not those of GRACE or Banner MD Anderson Cancer Center. This information does not constitute medical advice and is intended to supplement and not replace medical information provided by your doctor.

August 31, 2012 at 8:07 am  #1247484    

catdander forum moderator

Thank you so much Dr. Cianfrocca for following this thread. It’s so very helpful.
Janine


catdander’s husband:
8/25/09 thoracotomy biop dx stage 3a squam nsclc pancoast tumor right
9/16-11/4/09 chemorads cis/etop,
10/30 MRI to brachial plexus found c3 met changed stage 4
11/9-20 rads to c3 w/concurrent 11/9-1/18/2010 carbo/navelbine
Feb-Nov 2010 tarceva until first progression 11/29/2010 3cm upper left.
12/14/2010 Gemzar
Scans remain stable on Dec. 2011 still on Gemzar.
NED March, July, Nov 2012,Feb, and May 2013. Treatment break began late July 2012.

August 31, 2012 at 4:33 pm  #1247522    

Dr West

Also, many of these issues, including around bromocriptine, were previously discussed in a thread you had initiated many months ago, at which time, we were fortunate enough to have both Drs. Cianfrocca and Walko comment:

http://cancergrace.org/forums/index.php?topic=11292.0

-Dr. West


Howard (Jack) West, MD
Medical Oncologist

Views expressed here represent my opinion, not those of GRACE or Swedish Cancer Institute. This information does not constitute medical advice and is intended to supplement and not replace medical information provided by your doctor.

August 31, 2012 at 5:32 pm  #1247527    

Tong

Dearest doctors and modulator,
Thank you again for your valuable comments. I understood more about the direction of the treatment plan.We will have medical consultation next Friday, hoping we can brave enough to decide the treatment.
Fighting against cancer need faith and brave without regret under each decision.
With many thanks,
Tong teresa.

September 2, 2012 at 1:37 pm  #1247580    

Tong

Dear consultants,
The result of my sister’s recent blood test ready today. The level of “Alkaline Phosphatase,Total” increased dramatically from 43 to 85 IU/L in only three months time. I know that it might due to the increasing bone activity. Recently she got increasing bone pain over metatstatic area. May i ask whether AI shown effectiveness in controlling bone metatstasis? Or only RT can work? Sorry for asking so much as I really want to decide the best trestment plan for my lovely sister.
With many thanks,
Teresa.

September 2, 2012 at 1:47 pm  #1247581    

Dr West

AIs, like other hormone therapies, can work very well against bone disease. In general, if they are going to be effective, they tend to be similarly effective throughout the body. The brain is one area where many of our systemic therapies don’t penetrate, but otherwise, systemic therapies, whether chemotherapy or hormone therapy or targeted therapy, often works comparably on lesions throughout the body.

Good luck.

-Dr. West


Howard (Jack) West, MD
Medical Oncologist

Views expressed here represent my opinion, not those of GRACE or Swedish Cancer Institute. This information does not constitute medical advice and is intended to supplement and not replace medical information provided by your doctor.

September 2, 2012 at 9:56 pm  #1247591    

Dr Cianfrocca

I agree with Dr. West’s comments.

All the best
Dr Cianfrocca


Mary Cianfrocca, D.O., FACP
Director of Breast Cancer Program

Views expressed here represent my opinion, not those of GRACE or Banner MD Anderson Cancer Center. This information does not constitute medical advice and is intended to supplement and not replace medical information provided by your doctor.

September 8, 2012 at 7:20 pm  #1247827    

Tong

Dear doctors,
My sister now decide to proceed to ovarian ablation , the procedure will start one week later. As she got severe bone pain now, clinican suggested her to have Zometa 4mg infusion last Friday. After that, she always felt very high in body temperature, sometimes around 38.7 and got muscle pain, is it a common side effect of Zometa? If yes, then how long does this symptom fade out?
Her recent blood result shows Alkaline Phosphatase, Total 85IU/l (normal range is 33-84) , Calcium 2.41mmol/L ( normal range 2.15-2.55).
The clinican prescribed her calcium carbonate tablet 1500mg daily. What is the use of this calcium tablet? As her calcium level is still within normal range, does the dosage of calcium tablet each day will make her body receive too much calcium? If she really need such supplement, anything can her to lower the adverse effect of the possibility of over calcium.
With many thanks
teresa

September 8, 2012 at 7:32 pm  #1247828    

Tong

And what can we do to lower the adverse effect of Zometa if zometa infusion is a must for my sister.

September 8, 2012 at 8:34 pm  #1247830    

Dr West

The acute effects like fever and pain/malaise tend to go away after the first 2-3 infusions. I don’t know of any specific intervention for them — you can give something like Tylenol just to help with the symptoms, but they tend to diminish with the next few infusions.

The calcium is given because Zometa (zoledronate) shifts calcium from the blood into the bones. Without taking the supplemental calcium, far more people on Zometa will develop a low blood calcium level. In fact, Zometa is a leading treatment for high blood calcium levels, which can occur with cancer and a few other conditions. It’s important to follow the calcium levels to ensure that a person’s levels aren’t getting too high or too low, but it’s very standard to have a person on Zometa or XGEVA take supplemental calcium and vitamin D.

-Dr. West


Howard (Jack) West, MD
Medical Oncologist

Views expressed here represent my opinion, not those of GRACE or Swedish Cancer Institute. This information does not constitute medical advice and is intended to supplement and not replace medical information provided by your doctor.

September 8, 2012 at 9:41 pm  #1247835    

Tong

Dear Dr west,
As our clinican did not prescribed any Vit D, do i need to buy and what dosage you recommend?
You have mentioned that the adverse effect will go away after two to three infusion. As my sister will have infusion in four weeks time, which means she have such symptoms lasting for two months?
Thank you again for your information.
Teresa

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