Silibinin effective for brain metastases in lung cancer

Portal Forums Radiation Oncology Brain Metastases / PCI Silibinin effective for brain metastases in lung cancer

This topic contains 26 replies, has 3 voices, and was last updated by  daxys 2 days, 2 hours ago.

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August 4, 2018 at 2:23 pm  #1294995    

onthemark

hi daxys,

the research paper that I linked to in my previous post says that legalon is the same as thisilyn, but maybe it is outdated and that is no longer the case.


10/2015 Chest xray found a nodule as part of a physical (no symptoms).
01/2016 Upper left lobe lingula preserving lobectomy stage 2b for 1.9 cm invasive adenocarcinoma with additional 2 mm AIS nodule found in pathology.
03-05/2016 Sixteen weeks of adjuvant cisplatin/vinorelbine.
07/2016 Durvalumab adjuvant clinical trial discontinued after 1st dose knocked out thyroid.
12/2016 Revised to stage 1b (due to VPI) after new guidelines for multifocal lepidic lung cancer.
07/2019 Next scan.

August 5, 2018 at 9:16 am  #1294996    

onthemark

ps my understanding from what you have written is that one would require the Eurosil 85 formulation, irrespective of what the brand name is. I hope the manufacturer answers your questions but in the meantime the Legasil brand that was used in the brain mets studies is the one to go with. Have I understood what you are saying correctly?


10/2015 Chest xray found a nodule as part of a physical (no symptoms).
01/2016 Upper left lobe lingula preserving lobectomy stage 2b for 1.9 cm invasive adenocarcinoma with additional 2 mm AIS nodule found in pathology.
03-05/2016 Sixteen weeks of adjuvant cisplatin/vinorelbine.
07/2016 Durvalumab adjuvant clinical trial discontinued after 1st dose knocked out thyroid.
12/2016 Revised to stage 1b (due to VPI) after new guidelines for multifocal lepidic lung cancer.
07/2019 Next scan.

August 11, 2018 at 12:39 am  #1295022    

daxys

Hi Onthemark,
Here is what the head of Spanish researcher said to my question about what silibinin extracts could be used:

Q: Should Legasil be preferably used or could it be other Silibinin extract product with high Silibinin content?
Does Vitamin E contained in Legasil play any important role here?

A: Legasil is the best current formulation of silibinin for humans and our clinical research has been done with this product. Legasil has a new formulation of silibinin called Eurosil85, which improves its absortion by our gut. Vitamin E is not providing any benefit for his activity on the brain (it is incorporated due its activity on liver function).

August 11, 2018 at 1:15 am  #1295023    

daxys

So if we want to be sure that we are using an effective product, we should use a product that has Eurosil 85 formulation – Legasil (Spain-contains vitamin E) or Legalon Madaus Forte (Germany-without vitamin E) or Legalon E (Italy-contains vitamin E).

From the results of the research, it seems using Legasil (containing vitamin E) should be without problems, Spanish researchers did not see any negative effect in their patients.

However – the role of vitamin E in lung cancer has been seen as potentially problematic. Vitamin E is an antioxidant and there was a debate about antioxidants and their role in lung cancer. I guess you are familiar with this – if not, here is a link : https://www.reuters.com/article/us-antioxidants-idUSBREA0S1QV20140129). The debate does not have clear results ( it seems antioxidants might be potentially harmful in smokers). Some say antioxidants are OK with lung cancer.

Another thing is that someone might want to try to take silibinin along with TKIs or chemotherapy. In such a case adding high doses of vitamin E could also be potentially unsafe (I guess). The more agents we add the higher risk that it could interfere with the therapy.

Therefore I think it would be safer to use a product that does not contain vitamin E. This product is “Legalon Madaus Forte”.

August 11, 2018 at 8:03 am  #1295024    
JimC Forum Moderator
JimC Forum Moderator

Hi daxys,

I agree that it’s good to be cautious in the use of supplements, especially when you are actively receiving anti-cancer treatment. There are so many supplements it’s difficult to impossible to test for all interactions, and the industry is not particularly well-regulated. So I agree with your decision to avoid supplements with vitamin E and use a product for which you have been able to get detailed information on its specific formulation.

Good luck with silibinin, and please keep us updated.

JimC
Forum moderator


Jul 2008 Wife Liz (51/never smoker) Dx Stage IV NSCLC EGFR exon 19
4 cycles Carbo/alimta, 65% shrinkage
Tarceva maintenance
Mar 2010 progression, added Alimta, stable
Sep 2010 multiple brain mets, WBR
Oct 2010 large pericardial effusion, tamponade
Jan 2011 progression, start abraxane
Jun 2011-New liver, brain mets, add Tarceva
Oct 2011-Dx Leptomeningeal carcinomatosis; pulsed Tarceva
At rest Nov 4 2011
Since then: http://cancergrace.org/blog/jim-and-lisa

August 11, 2018 at 8:07 am  #1295025    

onthemark

Hi daxys,

Are you certain that Legalon Madaus Forte uses the Eurosil 85 extraction? This information should be on the patent information leaflet. I have not been able to get an answer myself to this question.


10/2015 Chest xray found a nodule as part of a physical (no symptoms).
01/2016 Upper left lobe lingula preserving lobectomy stage 2b for 1.9 cm invasive adenocarcinoma with additional 2 mm AIS nodule found in pathology.
03-05/2016 Sixteen weeks of adjuvant cisplatin/vinorelbine.
07/2016 Durvalumab adjuvant clinical trial discontinued after 1st dose knocked out thyroid.
12/2016 Revised to stage 1b (due to VPI) after new guidelines for multifocal lepidic lung cancer.
07/2019 Next scan.

August 12, 2018 at 1:40 pm  #1295027    

daxys

Hi Onthemark,
On Friday I got a reply from the head of Spanish research team who said that also he was informed by Rottapharm/Madaus that Legalon Madaus Forte uses Eurosil 85. So I guess we can trust this information now.
It is rather confusing/weird that it is not specified anywhere in the product information leaflets, you are right.
What exactly is the patent information (link?) where it should be stated?

One more thing : there are more Legalon Forte kinds/producers and only “Legalon Forte Madaus” uses Eurosil 85 formulation.
Legalon forte from other producers such as EmraMed and others are not probably made in Germany and do not use Eurosil 85. I contacted some of these producers earlier and they were not familiar with Eurosil 85 and informed me that their products are imported to Germany. Here is a link to a product that does not use it :

https://www.idealo.de/preisvergleich/OffersOfProduct/4949294_-legalon-forte-kapseln-180-stk-emra-med.html

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